TRANSCRIPT – RADIO INTERVIEW – ABC RN DRIVE – MONDAY, 6 JULY 2020
10.18am | July 09, 2020
SENATOR JENNY MCALLISTER
CHAIR, SENATE SELECT COMMITTEE INTO FOREIGN INTERFERENCE THROUGH SOCIAL MEDIA
SHADOW CABINET SECRETARY
SHADOW ASSISTANT MINISTER TO THE LABOR LEADER IN THE SENATE
SENATOR FOR NEW SOUTH WALES
CHAIR, SENATE SELECT COMMITTEE INTO FOREIGN INTERFERENCE THROUGH SOCIAL MEDIA
SHADOW CABINET SECRETARY
SHADOW ASSISTANT MINISTER TO THE LABOR LEADER IN THE SENATE
SENATOR FOR NEW SOUTH WALES
E&OE TRANSCRIPT
RADIO INTERVIEW
ABC RN DRIVE
MONDAY, 6 JULY 2020
SUBJECTS: Foreign interference through social media; Tik Tok.
ZOE DANIEL, HOST: For more on this I'm joined by Labor's Senator Jenny McAllister, who chairs the foreign interference through social media senate inquiry. Welcome to RN Drive.
JENNY MCALLISTER: Thank you.
DANIEL: What do you have specific concerns about TiK Tok?
MCALLISTER: Australia has… Australians are very proud of our democracy. We have a very robust democratic system and it is dependent on having authentic dialogue between our citizens. And whilst our open dialogue is a core part of our democratic infrastructure, it also represents a kind of vulnerability. And what we've seen over the last five years increasingly are efforts by badly intentioned actors to exploit that openness. And the concern really from Labor's perspective, is that more needs to be done to understand the scope of that problem and actually start to develop some solutions and responses to it.
DANIEL: Well, what are your actual security concerns about the Tic Tok app? What could that be used for?
MCALLISTER: We're concerned that all of the platforms in one way or another are vulnerable to this kind of manipulation. There are some specific concerns that have been raised by credible sources in recent years about Tik Tok. The first is that they’re not entirely transparent or inadequately transparent about what happens with individual data. The second is that it's not quite clear what their content moderation policies are. And there are concerns that some of these approaches to moderating content might be inconsistent with Australian values. For example, removing material about Tiananmen Square, or de prioritizing material about Hong Kong protests.
DANIEL: I bet a lot of Australian parents who are listening are wondering should my child be on Tik Tok? Should we be concerned?
MCALLISTER: Well, Tik Tok is absolutely a really fun platform. And there are, I think, 1.6 million Australian users and most of them are under the age of 25. We don't want parents to be worried about Tik Tok and we don't want kids to have to worry too much about using social media either. What's needed is a really clear understanding from the platforms about their approach to privacy and their approach to content moderation. That's one of the objectives of this inquiry. We'd like the platforms to come before us and actually talk to us about this issue.
DANIEL: Yeah. Well, do you think that Tik Tok would appear before your senate inquiry? How likely is it that they would comply with that request?
MCALLISTER: I think that Australians would expect them to appear. And I do think that it is in the interest of all of the platforms to be in communication with the Australian public about their approach to these questions. They depend on user trust. And I think that the inquiry provides a forum in which they can explore and explain how it is they approach censorship. How it is they approach privacy.
DANIEL: Yeah. Tell me more about that. I mean, if you had a Tik Tok representative sitting in front of you, what questions would you be asking?
MCALLISTER: I'd be interested to understand how they approach Australian privacy laws. I'd be interested to understand what kind of disclosure they provide to their uses that the purposes which data might be used. And I'd be very interested to understand the ways in which their algorithm chooses to promote some kinds of content and not others.
DANIEL: Are there other apps that you’re particularly concerned about too?
MCALLISTER: I actually, I should be clear, I don't have a particular concern about Tik Tok. I think that we need more transparency from all of the apps. And I'd be very interested also to hear from Twitter and Facebook about how they approach these same questions. I think increasingly, people do understand that social media is a powerful force for good, but also opens up new vulnerabilities in societies. The social media platforms need to engage with these questions and engage with democratically elected representatives and also the public about how they're approaching it.
DANIEL: But India has banned Tik Tok along with several other Chinese apps. It seems unlikely that we would go down that path here doesn't it particularly given the current fraught relationship with China?
MCALLISTER: I think with all public policy, you're trying to understand first the problem and then you're trying to tailor a response that actually meets the problem. We are nowhere near that with Tik Tok or any of the other apps. Our first objective ought to be to understand what risks exist, if any, and the way that the platforms themselves are moderating and approaching those risks.
DANIEL: Have you actually ask them to appear?
MCALLISTER: The committee has just had its first inquiry just last month, and we are running through to 2022. I think there'll be plenty of opportunities to invite the platforms before us. And that'll be a matter for the committee as a whole, not merely me as the chair.
DANIEL: Just a quick one before you go, looking at Eden Monaro. Over the weekend, the primary vote has been talked about as a problem. Is it a problem?
MCALLISTER: I think there were a very large number of candidates in a very high profile by-election. I think that Labor performed very strongly in a very difficult contest. As you know, our previous member Mike Kelly was well known and well loved in the community and it was a big climb for Kristy McBain to put herself before the electorate. But she prevailed. I think people saw her hard work in response to the bush fires, and she did incredibly well.
DANIEL: Is there anything that you learn?
MCALLISTER: I think that our enduring focus has to be finding local representatives who are trusted in the local community and who can speak to local issues. In the end all politics is local. And Kristy McBain and Anthony Albanese worked very, very closely in that local community to put a set of propositions to that electorate. I think that's an incredibly important feature of how we campaigned.
DANIEL: Good to talk to you. Thanks for your time.
MCALLISTER: Thanks very much.
ENDS
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